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Tell Us How You Feel About – Passing Prop 8
By ldsrecon | November 10, 2008
This election the California voters passed Proposition 8 creating an amendment to the California State Constitution banning marriage between members of the same sex which had previously been validated by the courts.
In the weeks prior to the vote, the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the Mormons) at the strong recommendation of their leaders, spent millions of dollars to help pass the proposition. In essence the church was telling it’s members how to vote on the issue, taking a strong political stand on the issue. Although “The Church” cannot get involved in politics without jeopardizing its non-profit status, it asserts it can get involved because it is not supporting a candidate therefore the moral issue is fair game. For more information on the non-profit status issues visit http://lds501c3.wordpress.com/.
What are your thoughts about the passing of Proposition 8 and the churches involvement in supporting the passing of Proposition 8?
Here are a few things to take into consideration as you comment.
- Matthew 22:36-40 – 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. - Articles of Faith – #11 “We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.”
- “Doctrine and Covenants 101:77-78, 80. “…the laws and constitution of the people which I have suffered to be established, and should be maintained for the rights and protection of all flesh, according to just and holy principles; That every man may act in doctrine and principle pertaining to futurity, according to the moral agency which I have given him, that every man may be accountable for his own sins in the day of judgment. And for this purpose have I established the Constitution of this land, by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose, and redeemed the land by the shedding of blood”
- Doctine and Covenants 49: 15 -”And again, verily I say unto you, that whoso forbiddeth to marry is not ordained of God, for marriage is ordained of God unto man.”
- Weblog on revoking the LDS Churches 501c3 Status at http://lds501c3.wordpress.com/
Here are several questions to consider giving you opinion on.
- Do you believe the Mormon Church was justified in it’s actions to support the passing of Proposition 8 or do you believe that the church was over stepping it bounds as a non-profit corporation in becoming involved in the support of Proposition 8?
- Should the churches non-profit status be revoked?
- Do the scriptures indicate that the churches support was not ordained of God?
- Is the Mormon Church taking away the sacred “free agency” ordained of God?
Click on the word “Comments” to leave you thoughts.
Topics: Proposition 8, gay mormon | 5 Comments »
November 10th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
Although I am greatly distressed about the passing of Proposition 8, I’m having a hard time taking this website very seriously because the second paragraph up at the top has got the issue thorougly confused and distorted. Please revise according to a more accurate and less misleading premise, and then I might be in a position to trust you enough to list all the reasons why Proposition 8 is a very, very bad idea.
November 10th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
Thanks Larry, I have tried to clarify the issues a little. Please let me know if you still have concerns about the second paragraph.
November 11th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
I am not gay but i do understand where this issue is coming from. I am married but not by the state or any other agency out there but by my wife and I. the problem with that is we cannot get all of the benefits of a statutory marriage. I do not support the prop 8 because it is an action to say that some human beings cannot get married. I would like to differ, if the whole world said i was not married and did not recongnize it and would not give any benefit of help or of any kind that does not mean i am not married to the person i covananted with. it is sad that we have to make laws for every little thing possible, we should be making decisions from good principles.
In my opinion the gospel of Christ can be summed up in the univeral rule of love you neighbor as youself. do unto others as you would want done unto you. it is a very simple truth and rule that doesn’t make us have a law on everything. it is the supreme law of justice. even mercy is under justice. to recieve mercy you must give mercy. I hope this makes sense and helps because I don’t like to express my opinion very much.
Thanks
June 10th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
I curtailed church attendance months ago. While I love the people of my old ward and would gladly take a bullet for many of them, I can’t imagine rejoining them any day soon. In that regard I know what people are thinking. I’m sure that when my name comes up in conversation, some sigh and say I’ve given up a heavenly reward to feed a petty objection. They have, no doubt, assumed that anger and pride are what’s keeping me from God’s good grace and that the church’s support of Proposition 8 was at the root of my small-mindedness.
While I certainly opposed Prop 8, I was never angry with the church’s position. Rather, from the mix of emotions I’d felt at the time—shock and embarrassment among them—the one feeling that emerged most dominant was an overwhelming sorrow. As someone who has suffered long episodes of depression, I had to put distance between myself and the church, if for no other reason than to protect my health. My reckoning was this: If God really wants gay men and woman to miss out on the most growth-promoting and love-inspiring of human relationships, I will accept the consequences of not worshipping Him.
That being said, nothing Christ ever taught gives me reason to fear.
I, like many young LDS men and women, fulfilled a proselytizing mission for the church. In my case, however, there was no burning conviction that I was doing God’s work. I could have easily declined the call, since my parents didn’t share my devotion and were alarmed, even upset, by my decision. But I went eagerly, hoping and believing that by my efforts the truth would be revealed to me—that everything I’d been taught would piece together like a finished puzzle and express itself as logical, beautiful and perfect. Yet by the end of my mission, that hadn’t happened. Neither has it happened since.
Instead, it became clear to me that the truth is far more complicated than I, or any mortal, can comprehend, which is why God said, “Let there be light,” instead of, “Let the universe be filled homogeneously and isotropically with a high energy density.” In this way, I liken the words of the prophets to first grade readers that point us in the right direction but leave for us a world of learning ahead. With respect to the teachings of the LDS church, no matter how hard I tried, I couldn’t accept two primary claims supporting it as God’s only “true” religion: namely that the church was led by a prophet and it possessed additional scriptures that revealed more of the mind of God. Nevertheless, the church seemed to offer a helpful—if not imperfect—rule of thumb as to how people should live and I supported it on that basis. Now, I no longer feel that way, but Prop 8 was only one of many reasons leading me there.
To me, Christianity should conform to Jesus’ teachings and not some lesser throwback to Judaism. In this failing, the LDS Church is not alone, but that doesn’t make it right. Its belief in blood atonement, for instance, harkens more to Old Testament justice and animal sacrifice than Christ’s admonition to forgive. The many Mormon scriptural references that describe God’s nature as vengeful and jealous smacks less of John than Leviticus. As a person of color, I’m offended that God cursed his wayward Book of Mormon children with a dark skin and called them loathsome, just like He’d done in Genesis. The numerous oaths Mormons take (and they know what I’m taking about) is consistent with Israelite practice, but is counter to Christ’s directive to “swear not at all.” The prohibition against gay marriage is an extension of the Mosaic Law’s demand to stone homosexuals—not to mention the LDS Church’s early restrictions against miscegenation—but it’s inconsistent with Christ’s ideal of love unfeigned. On this point I could go on and on, but to summarize: Jesus wants us to be better than the Ten Commandments, yet we remain more Judeo than Christian. And while the points I’ve raised may seem minor, they sum to an intolerant worldview that causes its followers to be motivated by fear and a loathing for the very human attributes God imbues in us.
If the church would grant me a wish, I would ask it to eliminate the phrase Mormons everywhere teach their children to repeat like a poor affirmation: I know the church is true. The sentiment not only leads to self-deception, but it runs counter to the intersection of two of the church’s most important beliefs, that: 1) we came to earth, in part, to develop faith and 2) faith is not a perfect knowledge. If we took these two beliefs to heart—embracing uncertainty as a necessary human condition that demands humility and eschews judgment—we would see our dogmatism for what it is: a silly kind of boastful swagger unbecoming of Christ’s disciples. If we were to do that, we might learn to love unconditionally and be the better angels inside of us.
And here’s a final note. If we did practice that kind of humble and non-judgmental faith, we would pray fervently that God, in His infinite wisdom, would make us instruments in His hands to help His gay sons and daughters find solace and a place of welcome somewhere. We would pray that they find joy, not to mention alternatives to what seems like an epidemic of suicide. Unfortunately, they won’t find that in the Mormon Church—not today—where prayers are never uttered in their behalf, but where that adage, “We love the sinner, but hate the sin,” rings as often as it is hollow and hackneyed.
June 23rd, 2009 at 9:35 am
Hell No, I don’t agree with any of these non sensible ideas.
Go do your thing and leave others out of it. If you want a relationship with God, THEN DO IT, LEAVE YOUR RIFF RAFF TO YOURSELVES.